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	<title>Comments on: Military Chaplains + Their Gays</title>
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	<link>http://outservemag.org/2012/03/military-chaplains-their-gays/</link>
	<description>a publication of OutServe, the association of actively serving LGBT military personnel</description>
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		<title>By: Tom Carpenter</title>
		<link>http://outservemag.org/2012/03/military-chaplains-their-gays/#comment-7673</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Carpenter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outservemag.org/?p=1762#comment-7673</guid>
		<description>Kristina: Could you please contact me at your earliest convenience so we can explore your idea further? tom carpenter@roadrunner.com
Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kristina: Could you please contact me at your earliest convenience so we can explore your idea further? tom <a href="mailto:carpenter@roadrunner.com">carpenter@roadrunner.com</a><br />
Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurel</title>
		<link>http://outservemag.org/2012/03/military-chaplains-their-gays/#comment-7658</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2012 02:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outservemag.org/?p=1762#comment-7658</guid>
		<description>Well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurel</title>
		<link>http://outservemag.org/2012/03/military-chaplains-their-gays/#comment-7657</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2012 02:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outservemag.org/?p=1762#comment-7657</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m the spouse of an active duty Sailor, and attend a Unitarian Universalist church.  Our church is a welcoming and supportive community for many people.  We had at least one openly gay military couple attending prior to the repeal of DADT, and currently have a gay minster.  We would like to let service members know our community is available to them for spiritual support, but don&#039;t really know how to get the word out.  

Even before the repeal, I felt strongly that the very conservative Chaplain corp might be less than fully prepared to serve those who need support dealing with LGBTQ issues, either at work or personally.  Clearly internal changes would be ideal.  In the mean time, how can inclusive religious organizations in the community help fill the gap for service members who need a spiritually safe place to seek help... or just a place to be accepted?   

I&#039;m curious if anyone has ideas on how to approach the chapel at the base where my husband is stationed to simply identify ourselves as a resource.  Does anyone think a Chaplain would &quot;refer out,&quot; so to speak?  If not through the Chapel, how else could we let service members know we are here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m the spouse of an active duty Sailor, and attend a Unitarian Universalist church.  Our church is a welcoming and supportive community for many people.  We had at least one openly gay military couple attending prior to the repeal of DADT, and currently have a gay minster.  We would like to let service members know our community is available to them for spiritual support, but don&#8217;t really know how to get the word out.  </p>
<p>Even before the repeal, I felt strongly that the very conservative Chaplain corp might be less than fully prepared to serve those who need support dealing with LGBTQ issues, either at work or personally.  Clearly internal changes would be ideal.  In the mean time, how can inclusive religious organizations in the community help fill the gap for service members who need a spiritually safe place to seek help&#8230; or just a place to be accepted?   </p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious if anyone has ideas on how to approach the chapel at the base where my husband is stationed to simply identify ourselves as a resource.  Does anyone think a Chaplain would &#8220;refer out,&#8221; so to speak?  If not through the Chapel, how else could we let service members know we are here?</p>
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		<title>By: Laurel</title>
		<link>http://outservemag.org/2012/03/military-chaplains-their-gays/#comment-7656</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2012 02:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outservemag.org/?p=1762#comment-7656</guid>
		<description>Monbois - I felt similarly to the sentiments you expressed until recently.  I am very grateful to have found a religious organization based on principles rather than dogma, which values the inherent worth and dignity of every person.  It a very unique religion which supports a personal search for truth, a welcoming community (welcoming of all people, both straight and LGBTQ) and a democratic process in its governance.   

You&#039;re right - a lot of organized religion out there sucks, but I think Unitarian Universalism is the answer to many of your very legitimate objections to organized religion. 

If your curiosity is aroused, Google the 7 principles of Unitarian Universalism.  You might be pleasantly surprised that there are other people out there who feel the way you do, but who have chosen to reject traditional organized religion, and create something amazingly fair, rational and compassionate.  At least I have been pleasantly surprised.  I&#039;d given up hope that there was a &quot;church&quot; (and I use that term loosely here) where people realized there is no difference between &quot;divinely revealed truth&quot; and that truth which someone figured out the old fashioned way - empirically.  

Being &quot;evangelical&quot; sort of goes against the UU grain, but I smiled reading your post because I so strongly agree with 99% of your words, except where you say:
&quot;But religion? Love it or leave it? I prefer to leave it. I can sleep better knowing I’m not actively contributing to the orgianized bigotry and oppression of millions of people around the world, including myself.&quot;  I challenge you to consider that there are religious groups working for just what you say you want.  Fairness, justice, dignity, acceptance.  Ya just gotta find the religion that welcomes people who think like you, like we, do.  Go look it up.  You&#039;ll be surprised.

I&#039;d welcome your thoughts on this.

Aloha,
Laurel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Monbois &#8211; I felt similarly to the sentiments you expressed until recently.  I am very grateful to have found a religious organization based on principles rather than dogma, which values the inherent worth and dignity of every person.  It a very unique religion which supports a personal search for truth, a welcoming community (welcoming of all people, both straight and LGBTQ) and a democratic process in its governance.   </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right &#8211; a lot of organized religion out there sucks, but I think Unitarian Universalism is the answer to many of your very legitimate objections to organized religion. </p>
<p>If your curiosity is aroused, Google the 7 principles of Unitarian Universalism.  You might be pleasantly surprised that there are other people out there who feel the way you do, but who have chosen to reject traditional organized religion, and create something amazingly fair, rational and compassionate.  At least I have been pleasantly surprised.  I&#8217;d given up hope that there was a &#8220;church&#8221; (and I use that term loosely here) where people realized there is no difference between &#8220;divinely revealed truth&#8221; and that truth which someone figured out the old fashioned way &#8211; empirically.  </p>
<p>Being &#8220;evangelical&#8221; sort of goes against the UU grain, but I smiled reading your post because I so strongly agree with 99% of your words, except where you say:<br />
&#8220;But religion? Love it or leave it? I prefer to leave it. I can sleep better knowing I’m not actively contributing to the orgianized bigotry and oppression of millions of people around the world, including myself.&#8221;  I challenge you to consider that there are religious groups working for just what you say you want.  Fairness, justice, dignity, acceptance.  Ya just gotta find the religion that welcomes people who think like you, like we, do.  Go look it up.  You&#8217;ll be surprised.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d welcome your thoughts on this.</p>
<p>Aloha,<br />
Laurel</p>
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		<title>By: trent</title>
		<link>http://outservemag.org/2012/03/military-chaplains-their-gays/#comment-7655</link>
		<dc:creator>trent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2012 01:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outservemag.org/?p=1762#comment-7655</guid>
		<description>I had this same issue when I was an Lt, I was worried that Chaplain meant &quot;Churchified&quot; and upon discovery that there was a supportive and controversial &quot;underground&quot; which was primarily run by Officers and Chaplains, I was really skeptical, but after a while, I changed my mind, I saw occasional refusal to talk to someone who had issues, and heard about some, but
there ALWAYS was someone who was willing, did not condemn or belittle, and the frankest discussion I ever had was in a group with 2 Chaplains and about a dozen gay students and soldiers made all of us realize and sympathize a good deal more with each other, because 
what we went through from being gay, the cynicism, distrust, suspicions, all the unfair treatment we dealt with was being done to the Ministers and Chaplains for defending us.
I think the best quote I heard stated was that our lives, and what we did was between us and God, but to refrain from supporting a fellow soldier and give him help, support and deny them the comfort of religion was failing to honor their duty as a soldier AND to God. 

In part, it was this experience that led me to become involved in Native religion, not instead of
other beliefs, but because I realized there were people in all religions who saw a duty to others as more important than personal ideas,  dependence upon dogma, and the idea that any religious organization could deny a person to believe was a ludicrous notion which condemned a persons belief as antithetical to any religion. By supporting others, you actually
defend your own belief, and make room for everyone to belong. As soldiers, that has to be how it is, because to do less you fail them, and yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had this same issue when I was an Lt, I was worried that Chaplain meant &#8220;Churchified&#8221; and upon discovery that there was a supportive and controversial &#8220;underground&#8221; which was primarily run by Officers and Chaplains, I was really skeptical, but after a while, I changed my mind, I saw occasional refusal to talk to someone who had issues, and heard about some, but<br />
there ALWAYS was someone who was willing, did not condemn or belittle, and the frankest discussion I ever had was in a group with 2 Chaplains and about a dozen gay students and soldiers made all of us realize and sympathize a good deal more with each other, because<br />
what we went through from being gay, the cynicism, distrust, suspicions, all the unfair treatment we dealt with was being done to the Ministers and Chaplains for defending us.<br />
I think the best quote I heard stated was that our lives, and what we did was between us and God, but to refrain from supporting a fellow soldier and give him help, support and deny them the comfort of religion was failing to honor their duty as a soldier AND to God. </p>
<p>In part, it was this experience that led me to become involved in Native religion, not instead of<br />
other beliefs, but because I realized there were people in all religions who saw a duty to others as more important than personal ideas,  dependence upon dogma, and the idea that any religious organization could deny a person to believe was a ludicrous notion which condemned a persons belief as antithetical to any religion. By supporting others, you actually<br />
defend your own belief, and make room for everyone to belong. As soldiers, that has to be how it is, because to do less you fail them, and yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://outservemag.org/2012/03/military-chaplains-their-gays/#comment-7647</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outservemag.org/?p=1762#comment-7647</guid>
		<description>The question during my 30 years as an Army chaplain, and today, is: &quot;Who are you there for?&quot;  I wasn&#039;t there for God, though I am the Lord&#039;s servant; I was there for my soldiers, for my Bible (Matt 25) said that if I served them, I served my God. My Bible also said, &quot;By their fruits, shall you know them.&quot;  God includes and my task is to strive to do the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question during my 30 years as an Army chaplain, and today, is: &#8220;Who are you there for?&#8221;  I wasn&#8217;t there for God, though I am the Lord&#8217;s servant; I was there for my soldiers, for my Bible (Matt 25) said that if I served them, I served my God. My Bible also said, &#8220;By their fruits, shall you know them.&#8221;  God includes and my task is to strive to do the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryce</title>
		<link>http://outservemag.org/2012/03/military-chaplains-their-gays/#comment-7627</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outservemag.org/?p=1762#comment-7627</guid>
		<description>The &quot;Bible&quot; wasn&#039;t written with Gay folks in mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;Bible&#8221; wasn&#8217;t written with Gay folks in mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Monbois</title>
		<link>http://outservemag.org/2012/03/military-chaplains-their-gays/#comment-7609</link>
		<dc:creator>Monbois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outservemag.org/?p=1762#comment-7609</guid>
		<description>Why do people want to practice a belief that demonizes them?  I took my own little spiritual journey many years ago and rejected organized religion based not only on its hate-mongering of gay men and lesbians, but all the other social ills religion encourages, inspires and insists its follwers practice, from sexism to rejection of science in favor of supersticious nonsense.  I&#039;m not black, but I&#039;ve often wondered if I were, would I choose to reject Christianity since it&#039;s the religion my slave ancestors were forced to practice by their white masters?

I understand the mental lock religion places on the minds of people who were raised in a certain religion, and on those who turn to religion in desperate times because no one else in the world seems to give a damn about them.  I feel very fortunate that, although my parents were Christian, they didn&#039;t attend church because of the hypocristy rampant in most congregations. (Though they did send my sister and me to Sunday School when we were very small, but that was undoubtedly just to get rid of us for an hour or so in order to make whoopie and produce my younger brother - yuck!)

Most of today&#039;s religions - and Chrisitanity - usually found converts at the tip of a bloodied sword.  Nearly 600 years ago Muslims gave young Turks the choice of converting to Islam or having their heads severed from their bodies, and Christianity often offered the same &quot;choice&quot;.  If a religion can&#039;t win followers by means of its own genuineness and must force people to adhere to its rules and regulations through terror, how much could a so-called loving god be involved?

I can&#039;t say I&#039;m a complete atheist because, well, I don&#039;t want my existence to come to an end after I die.  So I&#039;m admittedly as completely selfish as the most die-hard zealots in that respect.  However, I have the common sense to realize that no one - NO ONE - has any idea what comes after death, if anything.  No one has ever come back from a true death where the brain has completely died and decomposition has set in, and my guess is that no matter how far science may advance, that will never be possible.  If there is a god, or God, if you prefer, I doubt it has a gender or needs little cosmic pissants like us to kiss its ass and placate it in order to be happy.  It would most likely be far more interested in maniuplating black holes and quasars, exploring alternate dimensions or watching Titanic in 3D before anyone else - without the annoying glasses!

But religion?  Love it or leave it?  I prefer to leave it.  I can sleep better knowing I&#039;m not actively contributing to the orgianized bigotry and oppression of millions of people around the world, including myself.  I say &quot;actively&quot; here because I don&#039;t believe in &quot;passive&quot; compliance to an fucked up organization; either you support it or you don&#039;t.  If you don&#039;t speak out against it, you&#039;re actively supporting it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do people want to practice a belief that demonizes them?  I took my own little spiritual journey many years ago and rejected organized religion based not only on its hate-mongering of gay men and lesbians, but all the other social ills religion encourages, inspires and insists its follwers practice, from sexism to rejection of science in favor of supersticious nonsense.  I&#8217;m not black, but I&#8217;ve often wondered if I were, would I choose to reject Christianity since it&#8217;s the religion my slave ancestors were forced to practice by their white masters?</p>
<p>I understand the mental lock religion places on the minds of people who were raised in a certain religion, and on those who turn to religion in desperate times because no one else in the world seems to give a damn about them.  I feel very fortunate that, although my parents were Christian, they didn&#8217;t attend church because of the hypocristy rampant in most congregations. (Though they did send my sister and me to Sunday School when we were very small, but that was undoubtedly just to get rid of us for an hour or so in order to make whoopie and produce my younger brother &#8211; yuck!)</p>
<p>Most of today&#8217;s religions &#8211; and Chrisitanity &#8211; usually found converts at the tip of a bloodied sword.  Nearly 600 years ago Muslims gave young Turks the choice of converting to Islam or having their heads severed from their bodies, and Christianity often offered the same &#8220;choice&#8221;.  If a religion can&#8217;t win followers by means of its own genuineness and must force people to adhere to its rules and regulations through terror, how much could a so-called loving god be involved?</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t say I&#8217;m a complete atheist because, well, I don&#8217;t want my existence to come to an end after I die.  So I&#8217;m admittedly as completely selfish as the most die-hard zealots in that respect.  However, I have the common sense to realize that no one &#8211; NO ONE &#8211; has any idea what comes after death, if anything.  No one has ever come back from a true death where the brain has completely died and decomposition has set in, and my guess is that no matter how far science may advance, that will never be possible.  If there is a god, or God, if you prefer, I doubt it has a gender or needs little cosmic pissants like us to kiss its ass and placate it in order to be happy.  It would most likely be far more interested in maniuplating black holes and quasars, exploring alternate dimensions or watching Titanic in 3D before anyone else &#8211; without the annoying glasses!</p>
<p>But religion?  Love it or leave it?  I prefer to leave it.  I can sleep better knowing I&#8217;m not actively contributing to the orgianized bigotry and oppression of millions of people around the world, including myself.  I say &#8220;actively&#8221; here because I don&#8217;t believe in &#8220;passive&#8221; compliance to an fucked up organization; either you support it or you don&#8217;t.  If you don&#8217;t speak out against it, you&#8217;re actively supporting it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristina Coppinger</title>
		<link>http://outservemag.org/2012/03/military-chaplains-their-gays/#comment-7605</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristina Coppinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outservemag.org/?p=1762#comment-7605</guid>
		<description>I think it is time to do an article on chaplains who are supportive of the repeal of DADT and who look forward to the doing away with DOMA.  I for one fit in that camp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is time to do an article on chaplains who are supportive of the repeal of DADT and who look forward to the doing away with DOMA.  I for one fit in that camp.</p>
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		<title>By: trent</title>
		<link>http://outservemag.org/2012/03/military-chaplains-their-gays/#comment-7603</link>
		<dc:creator>trent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outservemag.org/?p=1762#comment-7603</guid>
		<description>When I was an LT in the Army National Guard, we had a group of Gay members who did their best to influence sense,... It was lead by three Chaplains, and when I was brought into an &quot;Inner Circle&quot; I found they had over 650 supporters, no computer records, all meetings were in person,
and, to my surprise, it was supported by mostly intelligence units, medical units, and run by Chaplains.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was an LT in the Army National Guard, we had a group of Gay members who did their best to influence sense,&#8230; It was lead by three Chaplains, and when I was brought into an &#8220;Inner Circle&#8221; I found they had over 650 supporters, no computer records, all meetings were in person,<br />
and, to my surprise, it was supported by mostly intelligence units, medical units, and run by Chaplains.</p>
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